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_________ __ ___ ___ ______________________ \||||||||\ \/ /|||\__/|||\/||||||||||||||||||||||\ /'''''''''\ \''''''''''/'''''''''''''''''''''''/ / /~\ \ \___ / ~~~~~~/ ~~~ / / /__/ /______/ / _______/ _ _/ / / / / / \ \ \___________/\__________/\__________/\___/ \___/ ______________ ___________ ___ ___ __ ______________________ \|||||||||||||\/|||||||||||\/|||\ /|||\ \/ /||||||||||||||||||||||\ /'''''''''''''/''''''''''''/''''/_/''''/ /'''''''''''''''''''''''/ / / / / ~~~ / / / ~~~~~~/ ~~~ / / /\__/ / ___ / _ _/ / _______/ _ _/ / / / / / / / / \ \ / / / \ \ \___/ \___/\___/ \___/\___/ \___/ \__________/\___/ \___/ _____ ________________________/\ _________________ / _ \/ ___/ ___/ ___/ ___/ \/ /__ __/ ___/ / ____/ / / ___/___ \/ ___/ / / / /___ / /__/ /__/ /_____/_____/_____/__/\ / /__/ /_____/ \/ ___________ _________ /__ __/ /_/ / ___/ / / / __ / ___/ __ __ __ /__/ /__/ /__/_____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ __ __ ____________ ___ | | | | HHHHHHH HHH | | | | | HHH HHH HHH sss | | | | | HHH HHH sssss HHHsss sssss HHH """ sssss sssss | | | | |__HHH_HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHHHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH | | | |\__ \HHHHHH" HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH | | | | | HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH "HHsss | | | | | HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH sss HHH | `-' | | HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH HHH |_______|_____HHH HHH HHHHH HHHhH HHHHH HHH HHH HHHHH HHHHH .----------------------------------------------. | | | INFO FILE ON 16,800 BAUD MODEL! | | | | Typed, Hacked & Investigated By: /X\R. YU/ 16.8 I recently purchased a USR HST DS (less than 1 month ago), through the syso program. I now understand that you are shipping a new HST DS capable of communicating at 16.8k bps. Will there be any upgrades available to recent purchasers of your modems? Or some sort of ROM upgrade? I would have waited a few weeks or so if I had known that there was an enhanced HST DS coming out. I patiently await your reply... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 2085 *USR Tech Support* 03-11-92 19:55:57 From: ED TAGGART To: TECH SUPPORT Subj: HST DS > 16.8K I was wondering if I could get an answer to the message that I posted yesterday reguarding upgrades for for the HST DS to the new 16.8k bps modem? You can call me at 207-799-1138 Thanks! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 2109 *USR Tech Support* 03-12-92 13:11:23 From: LIANG-KUAN YEH To: ED TAGGART Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2085 (HST DS > 16.8K) Yes...I would like to know that exact thing....Has USR reply to you before? I wrote a message about 1 week ago and no reply regarding the new 16.8k modems....if you find any info on a upgrade or anything...could you please drop my a line...thanx.. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 2114 *USR Tech Support* 03-12-92 15:41:47 From: JOHN LESTER To: ED TAGGART Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 2085 (HST DS > 16.8K) Heh...since I know this information, I figure I'll post.. . The NEW 16.8 modems are a TOTALLY different 'breed'..they are smaller physically....and there is NOT upgrade option to get 16.8 if you have an 'old' dual or HST... . Kinda sucks if you bought your modem a month ago...I don't know if USR is taking 'returns'....I doubt it, tho... . Now..the BIG question is...when v.fast (19.2K) becomes a reality in a couple years or so...will the new 16.8 modems (duals, HSTs) be upgradable?....heh heh heh.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 779 *US ROBOTICS* 02-13-92 02:13:00 From: DAVID BERNARD To: ALL Subj: HST UP-DATE TO 16.8 This is from RIME Conference Host Jim Daly announcement: I made mention a month or so ago of some new products forthcoming from the folks in Skokie. I can now give you the details. There has been some concern amongst the end-Users who had invested in the HST-14.4 protocol that USR had abandoned them in favor of the new v.32bis standard. Not true! US Robotics strikes again with a new HST-14.4 protocol!! Beginning immediately (product is already in the pipeline), the new HST-14.4 wil now support transfers at 16,800. ^^^ The new Dual Standards will also support 16,800 on the HST side. ^^^ It is important that everybody understands that the 16,800 can only be accomplished between the NEW HST-14.4 and DS Modems. There is NO UPgrade Path nor is one planned! ie: if you have a earlier version (meaning any unit shipped prior to 2/1/92) of the 14.4 or DS the maxim connect to the NEW models will be 14,400. All prices at the Retail Level and the various Demo programs will remain the same....no increases anticipated. P.S. The entire Courier line has been redesigned and "DOWNsized". David says! NOTE: My comment to it is, I as a HST owner/user am again left on the outside with no up-grade path possible. It may lengthen the life of HST and add to USR bottom line but how about current owners! I feel sold out with no support from USR! Again sell the old and buy a new one from USR! Hmmm! FYI Later...David ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1016 *US ROBOTICS* 02-14-92 15:58:00 From: BILL UTTER To: DAVID BERNARD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 779 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) > NOTE: My comment to it is, I as a HST owner/user am again left on > the outside with no up-grade path possible. It may lengthen the > life of HST and add to USR bottom line but how about current owners! > I feel sold out with no support from USR! Again sell the old and > buy a new one from USR! Hmmm! FYI Later...David But when you bought a 2400 was there a path to upgrade it to a 9600. If you have a 9600 V.32 is there a path to upgrade it to a 14400 V.32bis. So that's just life. When you bought your 286 was their a path to upgrade it to a 386, etc, etc, etc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1030 *US ROBOTICS* 02-15-92 08:16:00 From: HARDY ROSENKE To: DAVID BERNARD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1016 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) * At 02:13 on 92-02-13, David Bernard wrote to All ... DB> This is from RIME Conference Host Jim Daly announcement: .... DB> now support transfers at 16,800. ^^^ DB> The new Dual Standards will also support 16,800 on the HST DB> side. Thanks for the info! It is both TIMELY and well received as my order is in the pipeline and my cheque was cashed yesterday!! ... good to know I am getting a late "birthday" gift from USR! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1053 *US ROBOTICS* 02-17-92 02:17:00 From: DAVID BERNARD To: BILL UTTER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1030 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) | But when you bought a 2400 was there a path to upgrade it to a | | 9600. If you have a 9600 V.32 is there a path to upgrade it to a 14400 | | V.32bis. So that's just life. When you bought your 286 was their a | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Hey I agree that is life, but there are modem companies (Intel & Hayes) that I know of that in deed did offer a reasonable up-grades to their purchasers/users from V.32 to V.32bis! IMHO no matter what US R says it seems to be a corporate decision for their bottom line not to offer it so they can sell more modems. Hey when they were the only game in town they could get away with it, now there are other cheaper options! I personally hope HST hangs around a lot longer but I got my warning and learned my lesson new high tech from US R means no up-grade it has happened so many times. So the new HST 16.8 comes out and 6 to 12 months from now they get a faster better standard, history tell me US R again will have no up-grade path, it is simple, Buyer Beware & know what you are going to face in the long run. Knowing that then make your decision as you may. But just look at US R's past history and you will see what I mean! Hey, I am a fan but this is not the way to treat fans by allways leaving us out in the cold! Ltr...David ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1074 *US ROBOTICS* 02-17-92 07:51:00 From: TOM HENDRICKS To: HARDY ROSENKE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1053 (RE: HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) > * At 02:13 on 92-02-13, David Bernard wrote to All ... > DB> This is from RIME Conference Host Jim Daly announcement: > .... DB> now support transfers at 16,800. > ^^^ > DB> The new Dual Standards will also support 16,800 on the HST > DB> side. > Thanks for the info! It is both TIMELY > and well received as my > order is in the pipeline and my cheque was cashed > yesterday!! ... good to know I am getting a late > "birthday" gift from USR! As far as I know they haven't been officially released or announced by USR yet, hold on to you hat and see which model actually arrives. -Tom- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1094 *US ROBOTICS* 02-15-92 21:38:00 From: JIM BEDICS To: ALL Subj: NEW 16.8K (OR WHATEVER) QUESTION...... I just got my 14.4k DS last week, and found it was DOA. So, I sent it back overnight airmail insured which cost me $40 (which I wasn't too happy about), to have it serviced. Now, here is my question. If there was a problem in my chips (where I think the problem was) do you think I will get the new 16.8k chips in there? Or, will they just give me some used chips. Question #2. Has anyone else ever sent their modem back to USR for a SERIOUS problem (I m sure somebody has)? Did they "fix" your old modem and send it back, or give up, and send you a new one. I think mine was beyond hope, as all it did was blink at me (MR and CD LEDS) 100% of the time. I was hoping they would send me a new one (which would HOPEFULLY be the 16.8k) but wasn't sure what their policy on returns/serviced modems was. Thanx for any info. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1127 *US ROBOTICS* 02-18-92 12:59:00 From: STEPHEN HENDRICKS To: BILL UTTER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1074 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) On 02-14-92 Bill Utter wrote to David Bernard... BU> > NOTE: My comment to it is, I as a HST owner/user am again left on BU> > the outside with no up-grade path possible. It may lengthen the BU> > life of HST and add to USR bottom line but how about current BU> owners! BU> > I feel sold out with no support from USR! Again sell the old and BU> > buy a new one from USR! Hmmm! FYI Later...David BU> BU> But when you bought a 2400 was there a path to upgrade it to a BU> 9600. If you have a 9600 V.32 is there a path to upgrade it to a 14400 BU> V.32bis. So that's just life. When you bought your 286 was their a BU> path to upgrade it to a 386, etc, etc, etc. Are we to be slaves to old technology? Progress does not come with a guarentee that obsolete technology is going to be adaptable. It is an absolutely ludicrous idea that USR should have any responsiblity to upgrade OLD technology when they spend $Millions every year to develope new techniques. When was the last time GM offered to put a new engine in your car because the new one had more horsepower and gets better fuel economy? You buy a new car to get new technology. The aforementioned buyer should view his modems obsolescence in the manner which is most benefiscial to him. Namely that because he owns a USR HST modem it's resale value is great enough to allow him to upgrade (buy selling it and buying the new modem) at the cheapest possible price. This method of upgrade ensure that no risk in incurred with changing of processors, and no delay (other than the ordering delay) occurs if the modem were returned to the factory for rebuild. It is precisely because the USR modems have the greatest acceptance in the marketplace for high speed modems that the investment is secure. Let's get realistic in this view. The price that an older HST modem can be sold for, to people still using 1200 and 2400 modems (or practically any other High Speed modem for that matter), allows the purchase of new technology modems in a safer and more orderly fashion than trying to keep track of the dozens of old versions that have have been produced for the purpose of upgrading them. Unless an upgrade is a firmware only proposition, the cost is astronomical. The fact that the USR modem has such wide acceptance is your best guarentee that your money is wisely invested in ANY USR HST modem. Use the HST-Sale echo for this purpose. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1133 *US ROBOTICS* 02-18-92 14:00:00 From: STEPHEN HENDRICKS To: DAVID BERNARD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1127 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) On 02-17-92 David Bernard wrote to Bill Utter... DB> Hey I agree that is life, but there are modem companies (Intel & Hayes) DB> that I know of that in deed did offer a reasonable up-grades to their DB> purchasers/users from V.32 to V.32bis! IMHO no matter what US R says Like Groucho you came up with the magic word that both explains your lack of understanding and why it is NOT reasonable to upgrade many HST modems. During the last few years, and while maintaining a similar outward appearance the HST modems were completely redesigned from analog to digital devices. In some cases upgrades were possible. However, unlike Hayes, USR has over 100000 of these modems in the field and several different types. Unlike Intel and Hayes, the USR modems have a VERY high resale value. It is more practical in most instances, even when there was an upgrade available (except maybe adding V.42bis to V.42), to sell and rebuy to attain the NEWEST technology. If you have a Hayes 9600V, what upgrade path do you have to V.32? Have you seen the Hayes 9600 V.32 that costs over $1500, did Hayes upgrade that modem? I think not. Hayes advertises it's 9600 Ultra as compatible with every high speed modem in the world, but it fails as it won't talk HST, is Hayes going to upgrade it? I agree with your sentiment, but find that no other company equals USR support. DB> it seems to be a corporate decision for their bottom line not to offer DB> it so they can sell more modems. Hey when they were the only game in DB> town they could get away with it, now there are other cheaper options! Actually you do very well on this, cheaper yes! But value: NO! Remember the 9600V, remember the Hayes 9600 V.32, remember Microcom's MNP10. Better yet remember the Compucom! If as you suggest USR was to maintain an upgrade path for older technology modems, are you willing to take the blame for no forthcoming higher performance levels. Having to hobble technology in the guise of upgradability would condemn any company to mediocrity. Have you seen DrDos 6.0 as compared to MS/Dos 5.0? Maybe you don't see the similarity in this comparison, but it is likely that mediocrity would win if your view was prevalent. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1134 *US ROBOTICS* 02-18-92 14:09:00 From: STEPHEN HENDRICKS To: DAVID BERNARD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1133 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) DB> Hey Hardy, Apparently, in your case you will do OK. But you will also DB> have to wait for others to get the new one to use the little extra DB> 2400/bps, again if US R would offer up-grades to the rest of us we also DB> could be on even keel at that speed and it would add a better feeling You don't mention a damned thing about the higher speed being given to new customers AT NO HIGHER Price. Equally you fail to mention that because of USR innovation the High Speed modem came into being. And you fail to note that USR has hundreds of thousands of these modems in the hands of average users, not corporate mis departments. Keep on kidding yourself that you have been badly used by USR in not catering to the obsolete technologies of last year and you will sooner or later convince yourself that some other modem would do as well. I tried and nearly fooled myself too! You don't know how much trouble there has been with other modems that use what I consider to be deliberately misleading advertising. One competitor ALWAYS uses LINK speed instead of carrier speed in his ads. Another claims TOTAL modem compatibility, but won't even talk to his own brand 9600 modem or the HST, the world best accepted High Speed modem. Instead of being satisfied that you have a modem that has genuine resale value, and is compatible with 100% of the existing modems you moan about not being compatible with a VAPORWARE modem. What a crock!... or maybe an alligator! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1153 *US ROBOTICS* 02-19-92 02:19:00 From: DAVID BERNARD To: STEPHEN HENDRICKS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1134 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) |You don't mention a damned thing about the higher speed being given to| |customers AT NO HIGHER Price. Equally you fail to mention that becaus| |USR innovation the High Speed modem came into being. And you fail to | |that USR has hundreds of thousands of these modems in the hands of ave| |users, not corporate mis departments. Keep on kidding yourself that y| |have been badly used by USR in not catering to the obsolete technologi| |of last year and you will sooner or later convince yourself that some | |other modem would do as well. I tried and nearly fooled myself too! | +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ I will start off with a Love my US R Dual HST/V.32! But!!! 16.8 HST? OK the highest non-standard Tech with a street price at 575+ to 775+, Gee folks will be breaking down the doors to get them as opposed to the newer V.32bis modems at or below 500? The thousands of HSTs out there can't be up-graded like I said, my old dual can't be & I am glad that US R will try to keep HST around for a while but even getting the new 16.8 you have to wait till everybody else gets it to do any faster. So what is the advantage to 16.8, it has no future since it is not standard & only limited current use when others get it, and at that cost too! How many 16.8 HST only modems will be in demand? So based on past history of US R it may be assumed that these also won't be able to be up-graded to the next higher speed? That makes it a Lame Duck! Now if they come out and said we will make these new modems available, and we will make the Dual up-gradeable to the next faster standard at reasonable cost, and sell it at a competitve street price then I would venture to say US R could blow all those others guys out! FYI: Again from RIME: |I guess the word "downsized" threw a few folks. Their terminology, not | |mine. The production code word was v.SMALL | | | |What is meant is that the new design is smaller. I've not seen one yet | |so I don't know how much smaller. COurier will remain the premium | |category in their lineup of product: | +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ I don't feel I have been used by US R, I just will make my decision on the next modem based on the Tech available, price, and the ability to up-grade in the future for even faster if and when it comes out. The lowest price is not the main element but a reasonable competitve one is important. The message I get from US R is that they are more interested in selling more new modems then up-grading present ones, and that is fine but the Buyer Beware should be known and then do as you/I may from that point. That is what I plan to be doing and any consumer that really does their research and cares for the future I believe will also doing a similar thing. I may in fact buy another US R but I won't do it blindly just because it is US R, they will have to earn my next purchase, and not live on their past reputation! Ltr..David ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1374 *US ROBOTICS* 02-25-92 18:21:00 From: MIKE DRUMMOND To: LARRY NESBITT Subj: NEW 16.8K (OR WHATEVER) Q LNHH>MD=>JBHH> I just got my 14.4k DS last week, and found it was DOA. LNHH> When I read your message..'Boy' did it hit the nail on the head! LNHH>I had just purchased the HST 14.4 courier back in May of 89 and found that LNHH>the modem would not run properly. So I followed the instruction and calle LNHH>the support line. They were very curtious, pleasent, and understanding of LNHH>my problem and gave me a shipment number. I retured this modem in the LNHH>proper packaging and sent it first class 'thinking it will come back soone LNHH>well time passed and I called the support toll-free 800 number and they LNHH>refered me to the tech's that were working on the modem. Again they were LNHH>very pleasent...but no modem. After three weeks, I finally got a notice LNHH>that my system would be sent in a couple of days. I finially got it a LNHH>week later 'second day service'. It cost me with shipping, handling, LNHH>and insurance $38.50. Well after installing it...I thought things were LNHH>great!!! Well, it didn't last but a month and the modem did the same thin LNHH>so I call the support people up again...they checked it out and then gave LNHH>a number........Well after sending it in a couple of other times they did LNHH>correct the problem....it was a loose screew in the mother board of the LNHH>modem. Well, to make this long story short...it finially cost me over $90 LNHH>and months of waiting and runing my system at the slow cps of 2400 baud. LNHH> I really do like the HST and will by another, but your story struc LNHH>a bell and I thought I would mention mine. Better luck in the future! LNHH> Larry.... Well you have more patience than i do. I bought a ZyXel modem and the support they provide is outstanding. I am afraid that i have bought my last USRobotics modem. They sat on there behinds to long patting themselves on the back while the compitition left them behind (Concerning service anyways). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1376 *US ROBOTICS* 02-23-92 10:52:00 From: MANUEL WENGER To: ALL Subj: HST 16.8K ETC Hi everybody! I've read some messages in this area about the new HST (and Dual) which is smaller and has the HST 16.8K modulation. I've called the USRobotics BBS, but even their BBS only supports HST 14.4K (and of course V32bis etc). Now, is this HST 16.8K only a "rumor" or is it true? And HOW MUCH does it cost if I DO NOT buy it with the Sysop Deal? And WITH the sysop deal? And is an upgrade from an...er.."old" Dual to the new one with HST 16.8K possible or not? byby Manuel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1383 *US ROBOTICS* 02-25-92 13:34:00 From: KLAAS HAMBOERGER To: DAVID BERNARD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1153 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) Hello, > |RE: the above subject line..I called USR yesterday and they | > |said there was no fastermodem available at this time. The | > |only changes at present was SIZE ONLY of both the DS and | > |the HST. | > +-------------------------------------------------------------+ As far as I know, the v.small models have only as much horsepower as the current models: A 80188/16 and the one ore two signal processors. Is that right? If so, the "older" duals mit v.32bis should be able to deliver the 16.8k HST-speed. If this is true, it must be possible for USR to offer an update by only changing the ROMs. If this is right, USR only doesn't want to update, although they could. If not, the new models must have some improvement in processing speed. Does anybody have the exact specifications? If the new models are as slow as the current ones and USR doesn't offer an update, they just are to "lazy" or so to make the firmware of the new generation fitting for the modems you get today. Something to the car-example: If a new car is being developed and you are interested in cars you know at least half a year before the official announcement that it will come, because you can read about it in car magazines. Another fact is, that you know how long the current model is on the market. If it was released in 1990, you know for sure, that there will be no successor before 1994 or later. So you can plan exactly when it is wise to buy a new car. With modems this is completely different. My dual standard was delivered on the 10th of january. When I ordered, I thought, that my new modems would be up to date for some time. At this time USR said, that no new model would be released in the next time. If I had known, that they were already going to release the v.small-models in february/march I wouldn't have ordered at this time! I think, that USRs behaviour isn't very fair. It was hard to save enough money to buy the modem. Now it is only one month old and already antiquated. Ciao, Klaas ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1428 *US ROBOTICS* 02-27-92 11:46:00 From: STEPHEN HENDRICKS To: MANUEL WENGER (Rcvd) Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1376 (HST 16.8K ETC) On 02-23-92 Manuel Wenger wrote to All... MW> I've read some messages in this area about the new HST (and MW> Dual) which is smaller and has the HST 16.8K modulation. MW> I've called the USRobotics BBS, but even their BBS only MW> supports HST 14.4K (and of course V32bis etc). Now, is this MW> HST 16.8K only a "rumor" or is it true? And HOW MUCH does We play a game every year with US Robotics where they announce at Comdex or some other venue that they intend to come out with a new product. Then a variety of "reliable sources" start to give out contradictory information about dates, specifications etc. Last week USR has dropped the word that the new modems are supposed to ship on 3/2/92. But they also said they would ship on 2/1/92. So this is an announcement that could prove as false as the previous one. I suspect they will delay until distributor stocks are down, and the new modems are actually needed for shipments to distributors. MW> it cost if I DO NOT buy it with the Sysop Deal? And WITH MW> the sysop deal? And is an upgrade from an...er.."old" Dual MW> to the new one with HST 16.8K possible or not? Sysop's deal on a Dual Standard is $499. This is not an upgrade of an older modem. It is a completely NEW design, with 16800 dce and 57,600 dte rates. It is also approximately Half the size of the older modems. There have been more than a dozen different USR HST modems, most bear the same name as the predecessor and are in reality radically different inside. When massive changes are made, there is no realistic expectation of an upgrade. Currently USR HST modems have a VERY High resale value. Judging from the HST-Sale echo, the modems are in great demand. If you have an older modem, there will be no difficulty in selling it, and purchasing the new design for much less than the cost of a "so-called" upgrade. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1430 *US ROBOTICS* 02-27-92 12:00:00 From: STEPHEN HENDRICKS To: MIKE DRUMMOND Subj: NEW 16.8K (OR WHATEVER) MD> Well you have more patience than i do. I bought a ZyXel modem and the MD> support they provide is outstanding. I am afraid that i have bought my MD> last USRobotics modem. They sat on there behinds to long patting Then you have no reason to be entering messages in this echo. Start you own if you like, but you have no need of the technical support this echo was founded to provide. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1434 *US ROBOTICS* 02-27-92 12:15:00 From: STEPHEN HENDRICKS To: KLAAS HAMBOERGER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1383 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) KH> would be released in the next time. If I had known, that KH> they were already going to release the v.small-models in KH> february/march I wouldn't have ordered at this time! I KH> think, that USRs behaviour isn't very fair. It was hard to KH> save enough money to buy the modem. Now it is only one KH> month old and already antiquated. The new modems were talked about at Comdex last fall (November ?) So for those with access to industry wide news, it was no surprise. USR is like Porsche, they are constantly making improvements without regard to model years. If you have been involved with automobiles, especially in the USA the makers constantly change the internal components. A typcial auto made in one year might have four different make axles in it for example. It is probably a greater problem to upgrade in Europe than here, but we have little problem upgrading from one modem to the next due to a very high resale value. Sorry that this happens, but I think it is best that as soon as new technology is available, it be introduced. The V.Small series is half the size, with different construction than some previous modems. If the new DCE rate is 16,800.. there is no guarentee or even a reasonable expectation that a rom upgrade would provide a similar improvement in an older design. USR has made the V.42bis upgrade available at very reasonable cost in a past upgrade which involved software only. This is not an upgrade to V.Small but an entirely new modem series, and as such it is not reasonable to expect USR to redesign an older series to equal a new design. Do you think Porsche would upgrade existing 356s? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1456 *US ROBOTICS* 02-26-92 14:15:00 From: HARDY ROSENKE To: DAVID BERNARD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1434 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) DB> Hey Hardy, The past is the past, but the future is what I will DB> spend my hard own money on for a my next modem. If US R holds to DB> the no up-grades for the next line to come that is fine but I won't DB> spend it on 16.8 HST with the known fact that faster is coming. DB> Since no current HST can't be up-graded to 16.8 and if the new DB> line won't up-gradeable (maybe it will!) then IHMO what USR is DB> doing is trying to hold on to market position with a stop gap DB> measure, and I choose not to buy it. If by chance they do come out DB> with 16.8 and say that the new one will have an up-grade path to the DB> next higher speed at a reasonable cost then I would get one ASAP! Okay, I think that we are in agreement here. Perhaps what is needed is for current owners of USR products and all 'potential' owners of USR products to put a little pressure on USR to make sure that the upgrade path is available. I would certainly think that they would want to stay competitive, offer SysOps good deals and keep the consumers happy! I share your sentiments.. what good is a 16.8K modem if it has no one to connect with at that speed?? I have used that arguement on people that have asked my advice on buying >choke< CompuCom modems -- what the heck would they connect with??? Perhaps it is time for owners of USR products to actively lobby USR to make and continue to make models that are upgradeable so that "Joe Average" does not have to sell his USR DS 16.8K modem in 1994 and go out an buy a new 100K USR Triple Standard..... DB> I am glad US R is trying to keep HST around, but I don't think the DB> masses will buy it at the latest prices. This is true, but looking out there at what the users/sysops OWN, it is fairly obvious that HST is here to stay for a while, or people's HST's will start connecting at only 2400 if people start switching to cheaper brands. Granted, I would like to see price reductions to see more of my users being able to connect at high speeds to me, and I would like to call more other boards at high speed, but where will that speed come from? I want cheaper prices, but I do not want to have to buy 3 or 4 DIFFERENT modems to be able to take advantage of all of the protocols out there.... it is as insane as "standardization" [lack of] of BBS and mailer software.... or archivers for that matter.... everytime a new one pops up, WHAM! There goes at least another 200K of drive space..... DB> not meet consumer demand. I hope US R does & what they will be DB> offering soon will be attractive to the modem public in both Tech & DB> Price, IMHO there past marketing plan needs adjustments for the current DB> & soon to be competition. Hey, they can continue as is and they will DB> sell modems but they will lose market share & that equates to lost DB> bottom line. This is very true.... perhaps they should be talking to you as a potential "SALES" person! I would love to see their prices drop say 10%.... that would, even though it is not much, be a start ..... I do feel, however, that quality is worth paying a little bit more for. I can buy an "ABC-brand" modem for half the cost, but if it lasts only a third of the time as a USR, and is down all the time, then I would rather have spent more upfront for a better product! Hardy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1457 *US ROBOTICS* 02-26-92 14:32:00 From: HARDY ROSENKE To: STEPHEN HENDRICKS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1456 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) SH> You will be allowed to buy a modem/s under specified conditions for SH> less than many dealers can buy a modem for. You will have NO dealer SH> support whatsover, other than what a dealer feels like doing for free SH> (usually nothing). I was well aware of this, but I feel that you are unnecessarily painting all dealers with the same brush. I have talked to several out here that have gone out of their way to help SysOps with 'tempramental' USR modems.... and that seems to be more of the norm than the exception. Granted, they will not "replace" a modem for you, but they WILL send it out for repairs thru their channels [which often times beats the send in service] and will charge less money than POSTAGE for it... Maybe this is not so in the US, but one thing is for sure... sending stuff thru the mail in Canada and insuring it costs an arm and two legs.... SH> Unlike the normal customer your modem will be delivered out of USR SH> Stocks in Chicago. This means that you will receive the most up to SH> date modem that is being manufactured. You will not get a one year old SH> model out of some warehouse, as you could buying as the public does. SH> You will not necessarily get prompt service. You are not dealing with SH> a an organization that has a sale staff that caters to individuals. That is an interesting fact which I did not know... I thought that they would be pushing out their old inventory before the new, regardless of WHO or WHAT the customer was. Granted that USR is not set up to deal with individuals (per se) but they DO have a department to deal with SysOps, which in my opinion is nice. The service seems to be prompt enough though, especially when paying my personal cheque....it is nothing longer than would be expected ordering thru a mail-order house.... SH> Too many people fail to appreciate the several hundreds of dollars SH> they save, and the fact that they are circumventing the normal support SH> procedures! If you want better turnaround time on orders, then buy SH> from your dealer, like NORMAL people. First: *_I_AM_NOT_NORMAL!!_* Second: I do not like the tone that is inferred in this, and I hope that you did not mean it the way that I am reading it.... Third: "circumventing normal support procedures"??? Well, let me just say that they had BETTER support my modem just the same as anybody elses!!! Hundreds of dollars? Yes, I am saving that, but mainly becuase I am buying direct.... not paying shipping costs that a DEALER would incur... I am also not paying a stocking fee or a warehousing fee and the money I am paying is not going into a salesman's pocket! I worked in the computer industry and a markup of 40-50% on certain products is the NORM!! I can safely say that I am paying only slightly more for my modem direct from USR than a dealer ordering a GROSS of them would pay.... Turnaround time, yes, I could go out and buy a DS this afternoon for $800... or wait here and get one shipped to me from USR for $550..... I can wait. Hardy ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1459 *US ROBOTICS* 02-28-92 02:28:00 From: DAVID BERNARD To: STEPHEN HENDRICKS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1428 (HST 16.8K ETC) |Currently USR HST modems have a VERY High resale value. Judging from |HST-Sale echo, the modems are in great demand. If you have an older +---------------------------------------------------------------------- Hey Stephen, Where is this confer available? Maybe some special deals to come if 16.8 comes out & SYSOPs want to up-grade, but we don't get that confer around New Orleans & I have heard others asking too. Well thanks for the help. Ltr....David ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1465 *US ROBOTICS* 02-26-92 23:14:00 From: TOM SMITH @ 930/201 To: MANUEL WENGER (Rcvd) Subj: HST 16.8K ETC. Manuel, the new "V.Small" USRobotics Courier line's more than a rumor. There's some indication that it's shipping now. Others indicate that it may not actually make it into the supply pipeline until late March. I guess we won't know for sure that they're out there until someone posts that his has arrived. As for the prices, they're currently the same as the "current" Courier line. This'd mean that the HST Dual Standard, which's the only modem with HST that I'd recommend buying new, would run you about $500 through the SysOp Deal and about $750 retail. If you buy the latter, make sure that the dealer you're dealing with has the new ones in stock and won't be shipping you one of the current models. Sorry, but USR's not offering any kind of an upgrade to current HST users. I'd suggest that you hold off on buying one until next year's V.fast models come out. I don't think that you'd find the extra 2,400 bps in HST mode worth what it'd cost you to upgrade. In fact, until lots more of them ship, it'd not do you ANY good at all... Tom Smith/Dallas... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1476 *US ROBOTICS* 02-27-92 13:25:00 From: TOM SMITH @ 930/1 To: KLAAS HAMBOERGER Subj: UP-DATE TO 16.8 Klass, the new "V.Small" USRobotics Courier line uses newer, more integrated, chips than the current line does. Its processors have significantly more "horsepower." Whether or not all of its power'll be fully "harnessed" at initial release only USR knows. There may be more tricks, such as V.fast, in that new box than we'll know about for some time to come. This increased processing capability also explains why a simple firmware upgrade won't take current Courier models up to the forthcoming 16.8 kb HST mode speed. Personally, I'm not a bit worried about that. Until a boatload of them ship, it's completely worthless in the first place. Second, the extra 2,400 bps doesn't impress me a bit. I'll be more than happy to truck along at 14,400 until V.fast ships in a year or so. By the way, these new integrated circuits could explain why the clock speed's increased, too. We won't really know until some user gets his hands on one and reports on it in detail... Tom Smith/Dallas... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1490 *US ROBOTICS* 02-28-92 09:30:00 From: BOB GERMER To: STEPHEN HENDRICKS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1457 (RE: HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) SH> The new modems were talked about at Comdex last fall (November ?) So for SH> those with access to industry wide news, it was no surprise. USR is like SH> Porsche, they are constantly making improvements without regard to model SH> years. If you have been involved with automobiles, especially in the USA SH> the makers constantly change the internal components. A SH> typcial auto made SH> in one year might have four different make axles in it for example. In one YEAR? I have an 85 Horizon which we bought new. The left axle was made by TRW. The right somewhere in Canada. I know because the constant velocity joint boots differ depending on who made the axle. I had to have the left one replaced because it tore and decided to do the right at the same time. The mechanic ordered a left and right boot for the part number on the left axle. The right boot wouldn't fit! Bob ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1491 *US ROBOTICS* 02-28-92 15:10:00 From: LARRY NESBITT To: MIKE DRUMMOND Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1374 (NEW 16.8K (OR WHATEVER) Q) MD> Well you have more patience than i do. I bought a ZyXel MD> modem and the MD> support they provide is outstanding. I am afraid that i have MD> bought my MD> last USRobotics modem. They sat on there behinds to long MD> patting MD> themselves on the back while the compitition left them MD> behind MD> (Concerning service anyways). Like I said in the first message, I love my 14.4 hst modem and wouldn't change for the world! Now, I must admit that I encountered a problem with the service...but they stood by their product and sent me at no cost for service and return mail the finished product. Where I had a complaint was in shiping my modem to them....with insurance and mailing not to mention packaging....it cost me (after four times) over $90 dollars. This all could have been taken care of if the tech. would have noticed the loose screw on one of the connections. I know it doesn't sound very professional, but I can assure you that its still the very best modem on the market and I for one will continue to use nothing but US Robotics modems. Talk to you later and if your ZyXel modem is as good as you say, how come I haven't heard of them? But that is in another echo please...Or.....Net mail. Larry...... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1509 *US ROBOTICS* 02-28-92 02:28:00 From: DAVID BERNARD To: HARDY ROSENKE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1490 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) |HR> Perhaps it is time for owners of USR products to | |actively lobby USR to make and continue to make models | |that are upgradeable so that "Joe Average" does not have | |to sell his USR DS 16.8K modem in 1994 and go out an buy a | |new 100K USR Triple Standard..... | +-------------------------------------------------------------+ Well Hardy, I belive we both agree, but I also learned what USR's market thrust is and it is not the SYSOP/Users of BBS. I think that segmet is importnat to USR, but I don't think we have the $ to sway the company policy or their bottom line. As I see it USR can get their price from corp/bus/govt market and make good money from it, why should USR bend to the wishes of a much smaller market that does not really make a big contribution to their bottom line by offering to lower prices & offer up-grades to current modems when they can sell more new modems at their own prices to biz? Now I really don't know exactly what their sales marketing is, but I don't think they sell directly to dealers either in the chain and if that is so it adds to the eventual cost to the public too. Some of the other modem companies I have heard do sell direct to dealers & skip the distribution middle fellows. I belive the BBSs segment is important to USR for the ad & name up-front on it & all the devoted people, it's much better then taking out ads in the PC Rags, that's my IMHO! I figure they don't lose on selling to SYSOPs direct since it does not go thru dealer net, but also most users can't afford to pay $550 to $800 for USR modems & IMHO USR really does not want those masses and will allow that segment to go to newer cheaper modems to come rather then lower their prices to theirs! Did you see that business dude in here who complained USR would not sell him direct & who was willing to pay $1200 List to get 16.8 now, so we can't expect USR to listen to us about reducing prices. Hey the biz & govt customers just pass it along to the customers or taxpayers & they want faster speed now and not 1 or 2 years from now and will pay top $ for it now. I am not gonna fight or argue with it, I fully understand it but I don't agree with it but that is not gonna up-set USR if I don't buy one either. IMHO, I think a small price decrease similar to what you said is gonna come along as a bone for lower market and eventual cheaper V.32bis coming out, but they got the biz guys hot for the plucking now on 16.8 and they will make them pay for it! BTW, we don't get voting rights with them unless you have some stock! I have been happy & still am with older Dual HST/V.32 and maybe I can get a deal on the "New old Dual" HST/V32bis from SYSOP who can't live without 16.8. I cried my eyes out already and now I realize where I fit on the list with USR's bottom line 1st. Good Luck.. Ltr...David ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1577 *US ROBOTICS* 02-29-92 13:47:00 From: MIKE DRUMMOND To: STEPHEN HENDRICKS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1430 (NEW 16.8K (OR WHATEVER)) SHHH> MD> Well you have more patience than i do. I bought a ZyXel modem and the SHHH> MD> support they provide is outstanding. I am afraid that i have bought m SHHH> MD> last USRobotics modem. They sat on there behinds to long patting SHHH>Then you have no reason to be entering messages in this echo. Start you SHHH>own if you like, but you have no need of the technical support this echo SHHH>was founded to provide. I didn't mean to p@ss in anybodys wheaties. I was expressing my views on USRobotics. and while i do not plan to purchase from USR agian i do have a number of HSTs and therefore i do find this echo very helpfull. I like the product that USR puts out but the merchandise is only half of the formula the other half is support and this is where USR falls flat on there face. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1607 *US ROBOTICS* 02-29-92 12:25:00 From: TOM SMITH @ 930/1 To: DAVID BERNARD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1465 (HST 16.8K ETC.) David, HST_SALE's carried on the FIDONet Backbone and should be easily available to your or your SysOp. In fact, it's my understanding that both HST and HST_SALE must be carried if either's on the board. I may be wrong on this; I could be confusing them with the hard disk Echos. If you're looking, I'd suggest that you also pick up MODEM_SALE and HS_MODEM. I've seen the former mentioned but have never seen a board I use carry it. I'm a regular reader and poster on the latter; it covers all high-speed modems. Good Readin'... Tom Smith/Dallas... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1611 *US ROBOTICS* 03-01-92 00:33:00 From: JASON BUCHANAN To: ALL Subj: DUAL STANDARD V.32BIS AND HST 16.8KBS Hello! I have been reading this echo with interest for several weeks with only sparse hopes that USR has released their Dual Standard modems with the HST 16.8Kbps mode. Would someone kindly confirm whether USR has indeed started to ship Dual Standard V.32bis/HST 16.8Kbps modems, or if USR is waiting at a later date to announce them? Many thanks in advance, Jason Buchanan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1612 *US ROBOTICS* 02-28-92 23:09:00 From: DENNIS DOMAZET To: KLAAS HAMBOERGER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1509 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) * On 02-25-92, Klaas Hamboerger smashed keys to David Bernard about: KH> think, that USRs behaviour isn't very fair. It was hard to KH> save enough money to buy the modem. Now it is only one month KH> old and already antiquated. (I couldn't quote your whole message because it was too long, but I think that you remember what you wrote). I agree totally with you. Let me narrate my own experience with USR. Last October, I purchased a USR HST 14400 with v.42bis, the newest HST they had on the market. On the box that I purchased the modem in, it clearly stated, in two separate places, that the modem was upgradable to dual standard v.32 with "modules" that could be purchased from USR. That is one of the main reasons that I bought this modem, that the package stated that it could easily be upgraded. Then I discovered that I needed v.32 capability, so I called and wrote USR about purchasing this module. They told me that it had been "discontinued". I found this fascinating, since the modem's chip dates were late August of 1991. I was very upset that USR would explicitly state on their package that the modem could be upgraded and then discontinue the upgrade so quickly. Now, the only thing I can do is purchase another modem. I had faith that I would not need to spend a great deal of money to be able to use v.32, but I guess that I was wrong. I like the HST, I think it is a fantastic product, but USR's customer support leaves much to be desired. It really is unfortunate that something like this could happen. When I do buy a new modem, I regret to say that it will definitely NOT be a USR product again... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1655 *US ROBOTICS* 03-01-92 14:11:00 From: MIKE DRUMMOND To: LARRY NESBITT Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1491 (NEW 16.8K (OR WHATEVER) Q) LNHH> Like I said in the first message, I love my 14.4 hst modem and LNHH>wouldn't change for the world! Now, I must admit that I encountered LNHH>a problem with the service...but they stood by their product and sent LNHH>me at no cost for service and return mail the finished product. Where LNHH>I had a complaint was in shiping my modem to them....with insurance and LNHH>mailing not to mention packaging....it cost me (after four times) over LNHH>$90 dollars. This all could have been taken care of if the tech. would LNHH>have noticed the loose screw on one of the connections. I know it doesn't LNHH>sound very professional, but I can assure you that its still the very best LNHH>modem on the market and I for one will continue to use nothing but US LNHH>Robotics modems. Talk to you later and if your ZyXel modem is as good LNHH>as you say, how come I haven't heard of them? But that is in another LNHH>echo please...Or.....Net mail. In the end all that really matter is that we are happy with the purchases we have made and all in all i am by no means an anti USR advocate. As a matter of fact i usually recommend them to my users due to the widespread use of HSTs. Although i must say it would sure be nice if everything could talk to everything else. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1659 *US ROBOTICS* 03-01-92 07:23:00 From: TOM HENDRICKS To: KLAAS HAMBOERGER Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1612 (RE: HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) > behaviour isn't very fair. It was hard to save enough > money to buy the modem. Now it is only one month old and > already antiquated. Although it still works every bit as much as before. Still provides the same excellent performance, etc. It is not antiquated. BTW: A new model will always be "On the way" at almost any manufacturer I know of. -Tom- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1663 *US ROBOTICS* 03-01-92 07:34:00 From: TOM HENDRICKS To: STEPHEN HENDRICKS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1659 (RE: HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) > previous modems. If the new DCE rate is > 16,800.. there is no guarentee or This is a misuse of the term DCE (it means Data Communications Equipment, and DTE means Data Terminal Equipment, and it specifies the wiring used in the serial connection - has nothing to do with bps carrier rate.). -Tom- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1682 *US ROBOTICS* 03-01-92 23:28:00 From: STEPHEN HENDRICKS To: HARDY ROSENKE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1663 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) HR> I was well aware of this, but I feel that you HR> are unnecessarily painting all dealers with the same Possibly, but that is rapidly becoming the norm as the vast majority of "computer dealers" in this area are closing and locking their doors to the mass market. So a dealer is not very likely to support a product he did not sell. That will depend on an individuals relationship with his dealer. A relationship that is a good one will tend not to have the customer buying direct from the maker. I used to work for such a dealer, and their doors are now locked to the public. SH> Unlike the normal customer your modem will be delivered out of USR SH> Stocks in Chicago. This means that you will receive the most up to HR> That is an interesting fact which I did not HR> know... I thought that they would be pushing out their HR> old inventory before the new, regardless of WHO or HR> WHAT the customer was. Granted that USR is not set up I won't assert that is a fact. But I believe it is normal business practise to ship down old stocks first. Any company today that is not on lifo accounting is in terrible danger. USRs customers are distributors. Distributors seldom have special needs for new "trick" modems. The distributors also buy is mass minimizing freight, labor and handling expenses. SH> they save, and the fact that they are circumventing the normal support SH> procedures! If you want better turnaround time on orders, then buy SH> from your dealer, like NORMAL people. HR> First: *_I_AM_NOT_NORMAL!!_* Second: I do not like the tone that No sysop is normal. We get special handling as the prima donnas we frequently are. Most are however just normal people who can't really afford the NORMAL price of a DS modem. You complain about the way of doing business associated with buying direct at a tremendous discount, that is a choice you have made. Normal buyers don't get such priviledges! You have the choice to buy through normal channels, and to get the better support associated with buying from an authorized dealer. Is it worth the extra $300 to be slightly inconvenienced? HR> is inferred in this, and I hope that you did not mean There is no inference other than I don't think there is room to complain so much considering a nearly 50% discount that is attained soley on the basis of being a Sysop (and one that is apparently critical of the procedures involved in producing World Class Leading edge technology). HR> it the way that I am reading it.... Third: HR> "circumventing normal support procedures"??? Well, HR> let me just say that they had BETTER support my modem They will obviously, but normal support procedures when I sell a modem involves immediate exchange for a new one, if there is a defect, and free shipping both ways, with me doing all the LD phone charges. Is that worth $300 to you? HR> just the same as anybody elses!!! Hundreds of HR> dollars? Yes, I am saving that, but mainly becuase I HR> am buying direct.... not paying shipping costs that a HR> DEALER would incur... I am The dealer pays just as much as you do for freight (other than volume shipments). If you knew how much a dealer really made on a modem, you wouldn't wonder why so many of them don't provide support any longer. My former employee instructed me to charge no less than $70 per hour for support of any kind! Buying direct is a temendous burden on a manufacturer who has to hire a support staff to ship single units all over the country. Even if USR sold the modems to Sysops for $100 over production costs, they easily lose that much on the labor to process the order and put the modem in a shipping container and ship it. My former company told us (sales reps) that it cost no less than $30 to generate an invoice, and just watch the shipping people pack things like single modems. You can see that USR is being VERY good to Sysops for the positive PR they get from it. HR> also not paying a stocking fee or a warehousing fee and HR> the money I am paying HR> is not going into a salesman's pocket! I worked in the HR> computer industry and USR doesn't pay stocking fees or warehousing fees either. I think you are confusing the role of the distributors and that of the manufacturer. Even with $300 built in to the dealer, after paying shipping and two sets of handling and invoice charges, net 30 expenses, and possibly salaries and commissions a company wouldn't be making much money on an item. HR> a markup of 40-50% on certain products is the NORM!! I HR> can safely say that I HR> am paying only slightly more for my modem direct from HR> USR than a dealer ordering a GROSS of them would In the electronics industry a margin to list price of 40-50% is normal. The discussion here has been in relation to the lowest possible prices, not normal selling prices. If you purchased a DS from a dealer at a normal price of $975 then you would certainly be entitled to major support from that dealer. When we start talking in terms of giveaway prices from mail order houses, you get what you pay for. It also sounds as if you have neglected at least one level of distribution, because the markups are not 40-50 in the real world at all. HR> pay.... Turnaround time, yes, I could go out and buy HR> a DS this afternoon for $800... or wait here and get HR> one shipped to me from USR for $550..... I can wait. The prudent thing to do. I just think we are lucky to have USR around! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1683 *US ROBOTICS* 03-01-92 23:50:00 From: STEPHEN HENDRICKS To: DAVID BERNARD Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1459 (HST 16.8K ETC) DB> |Currently USR HST modems have a VERY High resale value. Judging from DB> |HST-Sale echo, the modems are in great demand. If you have an older DB> +---------------------------------------------------------------------- DB> Hey Stephen, Where is this confer available? Maybe some special deals DB> to come if 16.8 comes out & SYSOPs want to up-grade, but we don't get DB> that confer around New Orleans & I have heard others asking too. DB> Well thanks for the help. Ltr....David I'll see if I can find out for you. We have it here in Baltimore, but many areas don't carry all those confusing similar sounding echo names. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1688 *US ROBOTICS* 03-02-92 00:24:00 From: STEPHEN HENDRICKS To: MIKE DRUMMOND Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1577 (NEW 16.8K (OR WHATEVER)) MD> formula the other half is support and this is where USR falls flat on MD> there face. While I certainly understand how you feel, the course you have decided on is prudent. If however you do have a problems you can call on me for help with it as I am authorized as a USR dealer and will help anyone who needs it. I can not guarentee to do anything more than anyone else, except try. If what happened to you happened to me, I would have had it taken to the very top of USR management, quickly. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1724 *US ROBOTICS* 03-01-92 23:25:00 From: GEORGE PARDUE To: DENNIS DOMAZET Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1682 (RE: HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) -=> Quoting Dennis Domazet to Klaas Hamboerger <=- DD> Last October, I purchased a USR HST 14400 with v.42bis, the newest HST DD> they had on the market. On the box that I purchased the modem in, it DD> clearly stated, in two separate places, that the modem was upgradable DD> to dual standard v.32 with "modules" that could be purchased from USR. DD> That is one of the main reasons that I bought this modem, that the DD> package stated that it could easily be upgraded. DD> Then I discovered that I needed v.32 capability, so I called and wrote DD> USR about purchasing this module. They told me that it had been DD> "discontinued". I found this fascinating, since the modem's chip DD> dates were late August of 1991. I was very upset that USR would DD> explicitly state on their package that the modem could be upgraded and DD> then discontinue the upgrade so quickly. DD> Now, the only thing I can do is purchase another modem. I had faith DD> that I would not need to spend a great deal of money to be able to use DD> v.32, but I guess that I was wrong. Dennis, You might want to talk to your state Attorney General's office. Or even Federal Attorney General's Office if you bought it mail order. And the office of your Governor, and President Bush, and a few congressmen. Also, follow up with letters to each of them, with a copy to the president of the company that wronged you. Hope you kept the box which has the upgrade info on it. Send a Xerox copy of the message on the box also. It's often amazing how companies can change their minds, "in light of new facts which just came to our attention". Talk atcha later, George ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1726 *US ROBOTICS* 03-02-92 10:42:00 From: TOM SMITH To: DENNIS DOMAZET Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1724 (RE: HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) Dennis, did your HST with the upgradable labels on it come from USRobotics directly? If it came from a dealer, there's a good chance that it was sitting on his shelf for quite a while. If that's the case, then the wise thing to do would have been to either get a solid guarantee from him that the upgrade was available or check with USR on it yourself. If it came from USR, then I'd agree that you have a very legitimate reason to squawk, especially if you asked about the upgrade and was told by the USR sales rep that it was available. If it came from a dealer and you didn't take the needed steps to protect yourself, then all I can say is to remember the next time: Buyer Beware. There're plenty of warnings on nearly every piece of literature attached to a device which plainly state "Subject to Change" or some derivative of this. What it means is that a company can, and does, change its specifications on a regular basis. With this, I never ASSume that a device'll be the way it's advertised unless I check with the company and get some solid guarantees on the thing. Now, for some suggestions on upgrading. First, if I remember, the HST USR upgraded for me cost something like $400. This's no great bargain, especially when you can now buy V.32bis-class machines for betweenn $3-400 which can include such bonus points as FAX and voice mail capabilities. You can easily sell your HST for enough to buy one of these puppies brand-new on the HST_SALE Echo. You can also buy one of them and a serial switch or port for less than it'd cost you to upgrade in the first place. Second, if you really want to upgrade, try dropping a wanted ad in HST_SALE, HS_MODEM, FOR_SALE, or CFOR_SALE. I used to say that it was impossible to find the boards, but someone reported very recently that he'd picked up one for about $135, so it appears that they're out there but hard to find. Good Luck in the Hunt... Tom Smith/Dallas... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1740 *US ROBOTICS* 03-03-92 01:22:00 From: CRAIG SMITH To: GEORGE PARDUE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1726 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) On 03-01-92, George Pardue wrote to Dennis Domazet: >..................................... Dennis, You might want to talk to your state Attorney General's office. Or even Federal Attorney General's Office if you bought it mail order. And the office of your Governor, and President Bush, and a few congressmen. Also, follow up with letters to each of them, with a copy to the president of the company that wronged you. Hope you kept the box which has the upgrade info on it. Send a Xerox copy of the message on the box also. It's often amazing how companies can change their minds, "in light of new facts which just came to our attention". Talk atcha later, George ... Illegitemi Non Carborundum! >..................................... True, truer, truest.That's some very good advice. I work with the law on a daily basis and one thing that most states have is a Fair Trade Practices Law and/or Advertising Law. In Texas, if you can prove unfair trade practices and/or advertising, you are entitled to recoup 4 times damaged and NOT pay for the item that you purchased. It's a long, winding road through the legal system, but it does prove a point. As Americans, our entire legal system stands on principles, not actions. It doens't matter what they 'intended' to do, but what the 'General Public' would have understood as the case. Sue'm, make'm give you the Dual, or just have a good time watching your State Attorney's office have some fun and games with a major corporation. Craig ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1755 *US ROBOTICS* 03-02-92 13:32:00 From: PAUL HALYUNG To: DENNIS DOMAZET Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1740 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) > Then I discovered that I needed v.32 capability, so I called and wrote > USR about purchasing this module. They told me that it had been > "discontinued". I found this fascinating, since the modem's chip dates The Rockwell V.32 daughterboards are DEFINITELY not discontinued. Anyone who says this is blatently a liar. We have 2 brand-new GVC V.32/V.32bis V.42/V.42bis modems and after careful inspection, contain the SAME daughterboard that can be found in an upgraded older HST/DS modem. The date of manufacture on the Daughterboard was 01/07/92. Go figure. Same chips, same dual inline berg pins for the socket(s) in the HST etc. Just need a new set of ROMs and away you go. I am going to persue this and not let up. There is something drastically WRONG going on. Paul ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1763 *US ROBOTICS* 03-02-92 19:51:00 From: AL FILANDRO To: I GOT MY NEW MODEM! Subj: COURIER HST DS 16.8K Here is the ATI7 Info: Configuration Profile... Product type US/Canada External Options HST,V32 Clock Freq 16.0Mhz Eprom 128k Ram 32k Supervisor date 02/12/92 DSP date 02/06/92 Supervisor rev 4.1 DSP rev 11 Its small...but still looks like an hst..also since it is smaller, it appears heavier than the other hst I have here...Its kinda cute. It also supports a new connect rate of 16.8 "Connect 16800/HST/HST/V32bis" whatever...with one of its own kind. ---Contains V.54 for analog, digital and remote loopback testing--It also supports a DTE rate of 57.6k (aka lock your com port at that)... Ill have to play with it for awhile but it looks real nice (even the DEMO tag on the top ..the other HST I bought didnt have that ) Thanks USR! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1778 *US ROBOTICS* 03-02-92 21:58:00 From: BRYAN HOLLEY To: DENNIS DOMAZET Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1755 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) KH> think, that USRs behaviour isn't very fair. It was hard to KH> save enough money to buy the modem. Now it is only one month KH> old and already antiquated. Believe me, they didn't plan to introduce a new modem just after you bought yours! Get real. Every company must continue to improve / enhance their products and they MUST be introduced at some time. DD> Last October, I purchased a USR HST 14400 with v.42bis, the DD> newest HST they had on the market. On the box that I purchased DD> the modem in, it clearly stated, in two separate places, that the DD> modem was upgradable to dual standard v.32 with "modules" that DD> could be purchased from USR. That is one of the main reasons DD> that I bought this modem, that the package stated that it could DD> easily be upgraded. DD> Then I discovered that I needed v.32 capability, so I called and DD> wrote USR about purchasing this module. They told me that it had DD> been "discontinued". I found this fascinating, since the modem's DD> chip dates were late August of 1991. I was very upset that USR DD> would explicitly state on their package that the modem could be DD> upgraded and then discontinue the upgrade so quickly. Again, this is not USR's fault. Their supplier, Rockwell, has discontinued the V.32 module and gave the companies that used it no alternative other than to use the newer V.32bis module. Unfortunately, it is not totally compatible with the older V.32 module. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1798 *US ROBOTICS* 03-03-92 17:43:00 From: MIKE DRUMMOND To: STEPHEN HENDRICKS Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1688 (NEW 16.8K (OR WHATEVER)) SHHH> MD> formula the other half is support and this is where USR falls flat on SHHH> MD> there face. SHHH>While I certainly understand how you feel, the course you have decided on SHHH>prudent. If however you do have a problems you can call on me for help wi SHHH>it as I am authorized as a USR dealer and will help anyone who needs it. SHHH>can not guarentee to do anything more than anyone else, except try. If wha SHHH>happened to you happened to me, I would have had it taken to the very top SHHH>USR management, quickly. Well thanks Steve. I must say that your attitude is much more "consumer friendly" than the service department. You must do a fairly good business.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1933 *US ROBOTICS* 03-04-92 10:34:00 From: TOM SMITH To: PAUL HALYUNG Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1778 (RE: HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) Paul, USRobotics has dropped marketing of the Rockwell daughterboard. Since you need a set of the properly-encoded PROMs to make it work, and since you can legally only get a set from USR, this effectively means that, so far as the USR world goes, the Rockwell card has been discontinued. I've seen one message from a person who found one on the HST_SALE Echo, but I've also seen literally dozens of messages from people looking for them. While you may be technically right in that Rockwell's still building the boards, if USR's chosen to not sell and support them then the assertion that they're no longer available in the Courier line's correct... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1948 *US ROBOTICS* 03-03-92 07:59:00 From: STEPHEN HENDRICKS To: PAUL HALYUNG Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1933 (HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) PH> Just need a new set of ROMs and away you go. I am going to PH> persue this and not let up. There is something drastically PH> WRONG going on. Pursue it outside of this venue. After you get your answer let us know. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 1958 *US ROBOTICS* 03-05-92 02:28:00 From: CHRIS PRATER To: GREG GORE Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1683 (HST 16.8K ETC) > Hi Manuel, that is just a rumor. There is no such > thing. If I am not > mistaken I bieleve the fastest their is V.32bis which > is 14 400 bps. The > next step up that USR is developing is called V.FAST > which won't be out > for a couple of years and it will operate at 19.2K! The 16.8HST/v32bis14.4 is no rumor. I've called 1-800-DIAL-USR and they confirmed it. When you order a new modem now, it will be one of these V.small modems. Plus a few people in this echo have said that the new modem they've received have been the new, smaller, faster, v.small modem. :) /\Chris/\ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Msg#: 2168 *US ROBOTICS* 03-11-92 07:37:00 From: TOM HENDRICKS To: RAY MANN Subj: REPLY TO MSG# 1948 (RE: HST UP-DATE TO 16.8) > Just wondering: if US Robotics doen't have any Rockwell > daughterboards left, how do they repair broken > Dual Standard > modems that have a Rockwell daughterboard? Hmmmm.... Why don't you call them up and ask them? It's better than discussing it here, without any knowledge on the subject whatsoever. -Tom- ============================================================================== END OF MESSAGE CAPTURE!! ============================================================================== SPECIAL THANX GOES TO: FREEJACK, NAVIGATOR, ZELNIK, XTC, AXE, CAPRICORN, AMOK, NOMAD, TOM-CAT, MYMURTH, THARGOID, DEATHLOK SPIRIT & SHARK! 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